Wingman Trainging

[_AH_Viper]

Well folks the much anticipated wingman training is about to commence.  The first thing that all the participants will need to do is: Set your enemy and friendly views up. So that there is no confusion as to what buttons to hit.  They should be automatic.  Second setup your flight sticks so you have the most stable platform possible to get good shots.  This may take some time to get right but well worth it.  It can be rather frustrating trying to hit your target with your plane bobbing all over the place.  There will be two nights setup for the training.  Hopefully it will only take 45-hour to get done.  It may take a little longer at first just to work the bugs out of the sorties.  We'll need at least Six pilots, two instructors and 2 trainees.  There will be separate comms.  per side so that there can be much more detailed comments per instructor between their pilots.  The instructors will collaborate before and after training.  The map will be in arcade so that the pilots can have a good Idea where their bullets are hitting etc.  Vulnerability will also be off.  The Instructors will be task to keep a running record of all participants with playback on.  The later sorties will involve ground pounding and eventually squad flight competition.   I will need a list of available seasoned veteran pilots wishing to be instructors.  Remember we need two per training.  The exact time will have to be determined so that everyone who wants to train will have ample time.  I will need a list of trainees so that I can get ATC field instructions and some two man tactics sent out.  One thing to keep in mind, keep the comms. very short.  there will be a brief description of this when the ATC field structions come to the individual.  So take as much time as you need to get those sticks setup for smoothness plus the buttons you set for enemy and friendly views.  This along will help you successfully get through the training.  I'm waiting for my Throttle controller to get here so I can get it setup.  See ya in the sky.

[_AH_Moggy]

S! Vipes:

Sign me up as a trainee!

Moggy

[_AH_BBQhead]

S~. i'm in.


   cross thatch weave?

what the hell does that mean, wang?   <---- obscure movie quote 

[_AH_Homicide]

James Thatch's "Weave" By Long Duck Dong




Heres a failed weave..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NUUNx4AH3o

[_AH_taldrg]

~S~ A simple thing I learned from a good pilot was......you want to fly to a point where the enemy will be when you get there. Never climb up to a fight and only saddle up on his 6 if he does't know your there and most of all...NEVER fly alone.

[_AH_MOAB]

How do you set your stick and controls for smoothness, that seems to be one of my problems when flying, landing or shooting to much jerking around.

[_AH_BBQhead]

S~. There are a couple of utilities that you some guys use, either IL2 wingman  or IL2 joy control..

OR you can launch the game click on hardware setup and then click input.

   you can adjust the stick sensitivities there.  pitch, roll, and yaw each have their own set of sliders.

the slider furthest to the left affects the first 10 degrees of throw on your stick, the next slider affects the stick from 10 to 20 degrees of throw, and so on. 

It's a matter of trial and error finding  the settings that work for your rig. 

[_AH_crash]

Crash is in for a trainee position.
Moggy, what are you doing saying you're a trainee! Stand over there with the instructors, where you belong!

[_AH_Duff4r]

Duff4r is in...as a trainee

There is only one instructor I would care to have and that's....TD.  I think he should be the LEAD instructor.  I have attended several of his sessions in other squads that we have flown together in and he is a fountain of knowledge and a Whiz!!

If there is one thing lacking here at AH it's wingmanship.  S~ to Viper and others that recognized this and are providing the basis for this training.  It's a good thing that _AH doesn't do the Squad vs Squad thing as we might be last!  It takes two to tango! There are some excellent pilots and killers here at _AH, in fact, some of the best I have ever seen and I have been doing online Flight Combat since '96.  That said, if you don't know the difference between wingman tactics and a PJ sandwich....you lose!

A good wingman Stays with his lead and a good lead communicates well with his wingie.  It is not the job of the wingman to get the kills it is the job of the wingman to insure his Lead is not killed.  A wingman that returns w/o his lead is a failure.  In WWII you were a wingie until you had the knowledge to lead.  Leads taught their wingmen until they were qualified as lead.

A special <S> to -Bond-, my first virtual wingman and lead.  -Bond- I hope your skies are blue and your "6" is clear, wherever you fly this day.  Separately we were average pilots, together we were a brutal destructive force, a pair to be reckoned with.

I hope we all support this!

Nuff said,
Duff

[_AH_Bong]

I'm  in need some serious work as a wingman.

[_AH_Col._Hogan]

Very well said Duffr

S!

[Foxbat]

S!
Viper I've been flying for awhile and I think I can help with this training. Maybe some comms training or in game views setup help or something like that. I also have some experiance from flying in wingman type competitions which would apply to some of the requests I've seen here. Anything I can do let me know.

[_AH_taldrg]

~S~ MOAB. When in a position to fire, either at air or ground targets, I was taught to never use rudder. Only ail-er-on(sp). Too much yawing and spraying. For what it's worth.

[_AH_Moggy]

Crash is in for a trainee position.
Moggy, what are you doing saying you're a trainee! Stand over there with the instructors, where you belong!

S! Crash, and thanks for the (quite) undeserved compliment.  But, in this case I'm afraid I have to differ.  I never practice fighter tactics, gunnery, maneuvers, or anything else.  On my very best day, I am at best an average fighter pilot.  I have a lot to learn from guys like Viper, Johnny, Foxbat, Gonzo, Skat, and DW as far as fighter tactics (well, re the latter he'd never reveal anything to me, so let's stick with the 1st five at least (wavey).  Those guys (along with quite a few others that I've not mentioned) are good fighter jocks.

Hence my volunteering for "trainee" status.  Again, bud:  thanks for the kind words, but I really doubt whether I'd have much to offer.

[_AH_Viper]

~s aLL.

[_AH_Viper]

Sorry for my last nothing Blurb but I must have hit the wrong Key in excitement about the Wingman comments posted.  I'm really sorry for the delay in all this as I've found glitches in the map that I'm gong to be working on today.  I'm making note of all the pilots wanting to participate.  Before this thing starts just keep in mind that the guy winging will be controlling a lot of the fight in conjunction with keeping the leads 6 clear.  As TD has made mention, a pilot should never be flying along.  Now as badly as you pilots want to get this going I want to make it a smooth a operation as possible.  If it starts to get too difficult I fear that people may get bored with it.  I'm hoping that this isn't the case and all will ingest new found knowledge and understanding in the end.  There is a lot to be done logistically.  As I'm doing the setup I'm finding things that may become bottle necks so bear with me and we'll get underway ASAP.  Mean while remember some of the suggestions in my first few paragraphs about winging.  Remember that we are striving to be the most dangerous pilots in this Sims community.  We already out number most squads.  Also remember that this is just a Virtual flight sim(Game).  So lets keep it so in a friendly way.  Try to keep all comments to instructors in the debrief and not in the air.  I'm sure that you will remember something that went wrong.  We as instructors will do our best the make tracks of all the sorties flown.  We will gladly send them out to all that participate.  One other important note about wingman ship.  If for some reason you lose your wingman then it is your responsibility to inform each other that you will be winging for someone else and who that person is.  Even if the other person is or has a wingman more heads are better.  At some point  you two may find each other again but untill then don't fly along.  Be sure to let the other pilot know that you are joining his or her wing until further notice.  I'll bet you'll get no one saying no to you... :happy-112:   

[_AH_Viper]

I need some help with airfield compass headings.  I can't seem to find them in objects.  Some one made mention as to where I might find them but I forget.   

[_AH_Viper]

Formation Flying
View source


Let's begin with what is perhaps mandetory, and then work up from there in other posts. I begin with common mistakes in wingman tactics.

1) NO ASSIGNED LEADER. Like chip n dale we often go about our business of killing people when we form up together. "You first." "No, no, I insist. You first." All kindness aside, it is expected that one call the shots. Leader runs out of ammo, wingman becomes lead, and lead then becomes wingman. Lead overshoots, wing picks up the bogie. Etc. But determine who will call out the ACM and the bogies to chase and destroy.

2) FULL THROTTLE CRUISE. If you are lead you have less work to do to preserve the formation. Your task is offensive (though we talk about double attack formations later). Chop throttle to 90% or even %75 so your wingman can maintain formation. Might as well get used to this for campaigns. Thinning out the fuel may save your hide!

3) FOLLOW THE LEADERS. Enthusiastic wingman often try to execute their moves exactly when their leader executes them, and follow them in tight and precise formations. In other words, the wingman is pulling either pure pursuit (nose on the leader) or sometimes even lead pursuit (nose in front of the leader, anticipating his next move). Relax, and use lag pursuit. For example, a common mistake is when the leader pulls up into a pitch back, the wingman immediately begins to climb. Then, lo and behold, the wingman has turned inside the lead's pitch back and has lost sight. Instead, extend out to the point where the lead began his pitch back, and go even a bit further. Then follow in his path.

4) WHO HIT THE MUTE BUTTON? One cannot be radio shy for wingman tactics to work. Set up the private line, and ignore most of the other messages once you are in the thick of battle. Beginning radio chatter will include: load out for the mission, destination, altitude, and formation (traditional, line abreast, loose deuce). The wingman will also call out the distances so that proper spacing can be maintained. (Remember that your front view and his rear view will not match numerically. Lead will need to subtract two for his rear view.) Then the lead will call out contacts: "Con, 2 red z" Lead will then choose bogie: "In, top z" Or, "Talley ho, trailing 38." Important also will be the response, "cc". This completes the communication loop, and then one need not worry about missed assignments. Major maneuvers should also be signaled. Suggested short cuts would be: bp = pitch back (or immelman); ss = split ess; br, bl = break right, left; l, r = left turn, right turn.

During combat some important radio signals would be: 6 = on your six is a bandit; m6 = on my six is a bandit, can't shake him; h = help; easy = hang tough, I'm lining up the shot on that bogie on your six. Also calling out kills is very encouraging, and historically, part of the confirmed kill process. Please, don't announce your numbers over the open radio. But a private score is fun. Especially when the other pilot calls out your kill for you. "Wow! nice move on that Zeke!"

When its time for an exit, one may hear this: "Bingo fuel!" or "Bingo ammo!" which means one of the two is ready to depart. Call out the exit sign: "Snaggelpuss, exit stage right" Then both ac will hit the deck and run East. Anything beyond this radio chatter can be ironed out between individuals. Good humor is allowed, and encouraged.

5) LONE WOLF MCQUADE. Wingmen are eager for combat too. But in a real rhubarb, any target fixation can become dangerous, especially when both lead and wing are locked on a six of their own. Lead's first priority will be offense; traditional wingman's priority will be defense. (Once again, line abreast, and loose deuce offer other advantages.) Lead can be selfless and call on the wingman for a shot he finds to hard to pull lead for. (n.b. Richard Bong was most generous in this fashion!) Also, lead can be traded on alternating missions. As one ace said, "To loose your wingman is to loose 75% of your fighting power." Stick together, its a cruel world out there. If you get killed, or auger, wait on the runway for your wing, or lead, to return. Loyalty will be rewarded.

6) CHECK YOUR OWN SIX. The lead, if he knows the caliber of his wingman, and trusts his dedication, can spend less time checking six, and more time tracking bogies than his wing man. The wingman has a clear view of his lead's tail. A good trail distance is 10-15. Any bogie that gets in between can be dealt with. But checking your own six is essential, and a great work load for the wingman, than the lead. And don't just hit the rear view from time to time, but do the twists, the turns and the inverts, to get a good view back there at the 6 o'clock low position. Your death will lead to your leads death soon after. Know that you will often be the first target on a flat out pursuit.

7) MAINTAIN ALTITUDE. If the wingman gets below his lead, he will loose both his lead and the ability to close with any bogie on his lead's tail. A 500ft advantages would be optimum, more if your lead can't see out the back of his FTD to eye ball you. This potential energy (great altitude) can then be transferred into kinetic energy (speed) to clear your lead's six in a pinch.

Part II: Wingman Tactics

Here is some more information on Wingman tactics and formations. The previous post was on common mistakes. This will look at formations and tactics within those formations as outlined by Robert Shaw. But first, a couple comments. There are some things not directly portable for history into CK. It has been estimated that throughout the history of air combat 80 to 90 percent of downed fighter pilots where unaware of the danger until the moment of the attack. Surprise was the great advantage, and formations and formation leaders, organized themselves to avoid this situation. However, in CK, there are no enema bogey dropping out of the sun unaware, but the radar and range indicators put a different twist on our wingman needs. Though of course, when SA goes down, one has fallen on many occasions to a hidden attacker. But still, by this time formation discipline isn't as crucial.

Also consider the lack of peripheral view the air craft in CK that inhibit the line abreast formation. Thought tactically the line abreast is the better formation, it would never work in a P-38 with not only the need to intentionally look 90 degrees to the side, but also the fixed view limitations of the art inhibit this. (One can move their head a few inches to look around those bars!)

Please, I beg you, revise this as needed. I am no expert on this, but offer this as a beginning for the dialogs on wingman tactics.

First the formations:

I. WELDED WING This is the formation we often think of when we visualize a two man team in flight. One is designated the lead the other wing, and the wing man's position is anterior and defensive. During the war this was also a mentor role for younger more inexperienced pilots to gain combat experience at the side of a veteran. The lead's primary tasks are navigation, forward hemisphere search for attack planning and engaged maneuvering and he has the secondary responsibility of rear-hemisphere visual coverage. The Wing man flies a rather loose formation on the leader. His primary task is maintaining a rear hemisphere defensive look out and he has secondary forward hemisphere duties. During WWII the separation was normally 600 ft. My suggestion would be a range of 6 showing over your lead and with some alt to the wingman's advantage to close on any bogey that drops on the lead's tail. Traditional the wing was in the right echelon position, at about 4 o clock.

Pros:

1) Mentor for new pilot

2) Releases lead for dedicated attack

3) Requires less discipline and training

4) A reserve ac is always there to be called in when needed

Cons:

1) Who watches the wingman's six?

2) Only one ac is engaged in dedicated attack--less pressure on enema

3) May frustrate the more experienced wing man to do more chasing than killing

II. DOUBLE ATTACK With a double attack the wing man leader hierarchy is still retained, however the wingman's ac is pressed into offensive capabilities. Both ac with engage the enema aggressively. Within this philosophy are two tradition formations: LINE ABREAST & LOOSE DEUCE. In brief, the line abreast formation requires the most discipline and offers the most in tactical maneuvers that force stunning air victories. It is the most aggressive formation, and brings in the quickest kills, but not without risk. This formation is for the experienced and the disciplined. Loose deuce is more in the line of tag team wrestling. Where one ac drains the e of the enema plane, using pure and lag pursuit, and then trades off with the wing with a higher e status.

A. LINE ABREAST This formation places both ac at 90 degrees with each other of the 3 and 9 o clock respectively. A great combat spread is required, perhaps in the area of 10-12 showing over the partner's ac. This offers several defensive and offensive maneuvers against an approaching enema. There is the "Offensive Split" the "Defensive Split" the "Beam Defense" "High-Low Split" "Bracket". What these maneuvers do, and we can cover them in a later post, is they seek to commit the enema to pursuit of one of the two offensive planes so that the free plane can maneuver for the kill. As mentioned above, this require a great deal of discipline and much trust in the gunnery and maneuvering proficiency of the partner pilot's abilities. Would you offer yourself to sucker in the enema if you though your partner could gun him down quickly when you needed him to do it?

Pros:

1) This things kills them dead....it works

2) When enema is in pursuit he becomes predictable, and thus dead

3) It keeps the maximum pressure on thus leaving the initiative with you

Cons:

1) To apply this doctrine requires a high proficiency between both pilots

2) It requires discipline in terms of familiarity with maneuvers and execution of them

3) It suckers the enema in and the fish may swallow the bait before you reel him in

B. LOOSE DEUCE This formation places both ac in the same position, but a different philosophy, the that requires less discipline, yet the same amount of team work. While in the double attack doctrine the pilot of the engaged fighter is expected to get the kill while the free-fighter avoids death and cheers on, it is more often the free fighter that gets the shot in the loose deuce. The engaged fighter sets up the kill by forcing or inducing the bogey to maneuver predictably, thereby making it easier for the free fighter to position for a shot. The illustration of tag team wrestling is perhaps helpful. The first ac tires the opponent draining his precious energy, and also sets him up at the proper position for his partner to slap his hand and merge into the attack from above, or from an another advantageous position.

Pros:

1) It requires less communication and discipline between pilots

2) It is keeps the pressure on the enema, though to lesser degree than double attack

3) It sets up the best shot over the snap shot and thus guarantees the kill

Cons:

1) It makes for a prolonged engagement which in a rhubarb may not be advantageous

2) It is vulnerable to surprise from the rear, though free fighter often can "perch" and thus check six from there, yet there is no coordinated defense such as in the double attack.


                  

[_AH_Viper]

~S All,  I'm just waiting for DW to send the map back to me.  He's putting the compass numbers on the Airfield for me.  When that comes back we'll be ready for our first sorties.

[_AH_DarkWolf]

I've not received anything from you yet Viper...

DW

[_AH_Viper]

Did So!

[_AH_taldrg]

~S~ Put me in for train-ging. Never seen that before.

[_AH_Zipzag]

Im in !

[_AH_Viper]

Greets fellow pilots and trainees.  The test last night was a success as far as I'm concerned.  There will only be 6 pilots in the training room at a time, 2 instructors and 4 trainees.  there will be separate communications between axis and allied flights.  Big thanks go out to AH_Crash and AH_Darkwolf for helping out with the training map.  As stated earlier I will try and conduct training twice a week.  I can send out the map to other instructors if they would like to undertake training just to add a few more days available.  So Instructors please let me know.  The next training slot will be the coming Friday.  Like I said if an instructor would like to run it earlier then let me know.  My schedule is pretty much locked for right now.

See ya in the Air!